My Spouse Isn't On The Same Page Spiritually (with Leila Lopes)

Are you and your wife in different places spiritually? Is it causing a loss of intimacy and connection? Join host Jerrad Lopes and his wife Leila as they share their own story and offer hope to the Christian couples who aren't on the same page spiritually.

Mentioned in this Episode:​​​

• Join the Family Leadership Program! - 4:24
• 1 Peter 3v1 - 22:21
• Change The World With Me - 51:06

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MY SPOUSE ISN’T ON THE SAME PAGE SPIRITUALLY (WITH LEILA LOPES)
Jerrad: [2:29] Well as you probably heard in that introduction Leila is joining me today fan-favorite 
Leila: Hi guys thank you for having me.
Jerrad: Every time we're on guys saying how much they appreciate hearing your perspective or how you I’ve said this a million times we say this almost every time that you're on the podcast but essentially when we give marital counseling or premarital counseling of any sort or we’re just talking to her friends I typically relate to the wife in the relationship and you typically relate to the husband.
Leila: It’s true yeah
Jerrad: and so I think sometimes guys like hear your perspective because you may relate to more of the guys on here than I do one of my best friends in the world he is I mean you guys are a mirror image of each other it's just you guys are so much alike it's it's ridiculous so sometimes I’ll call him if you and I are in a spot that we can't we can't 
Leila: See eye-to-eye
Jerrad: See eye-to-eye and so I'll call him like alright dude here’s what I’m going through what would you say and he literally will think exactly how you're thinking but speaking of eye to eye today we're talking about when couples are not on the same page spiritually and this is a big deal and the reason we’re talking about it a lot of couples go through this you may be listening to this right now [3:41] and you may feel like you and your spouse are not on the same page and when I first started DadTired I’d get a lot of messages from women or wives who said hey Jerrad my husband I so badly want him to be the spiritual leader of our family but he seems really disinterested in all things God church Faith and so how do I encourage him to be the spiritual leader of my home and I totally anticipated that that would be the reality when I started DadTired because frankly just go to any church and it's usually full of women who are taking the lead and so I expected that but what was been surprising to me is since we've launched our family leadership program which if you're not in you should definitely sign up and come into the next cohort but when we launched our family leadership program a lot of guys have joined that and they dive in and one of the weeks the second week we talk about marriage and a lot of the guys have reached out and said [4:39] hey man one of the things I'm struggling with in my marriage is that I feel like I'm putting all the effort in that I can to be the spiritual leader of our home to dive in to take the things of God seriously I'm trying my best to fumble my way through this journey and my wife just doesn't seem interested I'm like trying to pray with her I'm trying to talk about the things of God and here's one thing I actually hear a lot a lot of guys say my wife is just like she seems more interested to be on her cell phone or to scroll through social media when I get home from work and I help out with the kids and now she just kinda wants to like check out and go on the phone so I thought man we should probably talk about this because I think there's a lot of couples who are dealing with it and I put a little poll out on Instagram and we've got a lot of followers on Instagram who are women again I think just a lot of wives who are like I want my fam my husband to lead and I'm trying to give him every resource possible and so they follow DadTired but I put a poll out this morning and I said do you feel like you and your spouse are on the same page spiritually 44% [5:45] of people so far this is just 6 hours ago so a lot more data to come in over the next 20… 18 hours how's my math 
Leila: I don't know I don’t know how Instagram works
Jerrad; 24 we’re so old
Leila: I don’t know the Instagram 
Jerrad: Leila posted her first-ever Instagram story ever the other week
Leila: I did a good job I thought I put text on it 
Jerrad: What was it I don’t remember what it was
Leila: It was when you went on the Huckabees show I figured out how to share the pictures on a story like the circle at the top [6:21] 
Jerrad: Did you also post it on your myspace 
Leila: Come on I almost said yeah 
Jerrad: Fun fact we will not tell anybody the real story here or the whole story I should say Leila and I met via Instagram I think DadTired 
Leila: No it was Myspace 
Jerrad: I mean Myspace that’s what I meant to say I think DadTired is credible enough 6 years in that I can admit that that's actually how I swooped in on you [6:45] as a young twenty-one-year-old saw you from like I gotta get this girl on my top 8 ASAP 
Leila: yeah you saw me on the Myspace and sent me a message he didn't even know me I ignored him 
Jerrad: She ignored me the first time so I had to wait shoot my shot again first one doesn’t go in you shoot again and then gosh the amount of times you asked me to marry you after that was just
Leila: Shut up gimme a break
Jerrad: So on Instagram the story it expires after 24 hours
Leila: Your poll
Jerrad: My poll so I was trying to do 6 - 24 18 hours from now 
Leila: 24 -6 is what he meant folks 
Jerrad: Gosh did I take my vitamins today 
Leila: I don't know 
Jerrad: My brains a little… the thing is when you're not here and I'm just talking the computer I probably do this every episode [7:35] just say random stuff that makes no sense
Leila: Yeah you gotta have me here fact-checking 
Jerrad: Yeah Leila is a good fact-checker 24 - 6 18 hours from now we’ll capture a lot more data but for right now the poll is showing 44% of people say yes we are on the same page 
Leila: 44% percent so most say no
Jerrad: 56% of people following on Instagram say I do not feel like my spouse and I are on the same page spiritually then my follow-up question was for you Instagram family what's your heart what's the hardest part about not being on the same page spiritually and without fail kind of the if I could sum up like all the answers it would be disconnection or loneliness from husbands and wives who feel like 
Leila: like the husbands and wives they feel disconnected from each other
Jerrad: exactly because they're not connected spiritually they’re not on the same page spiritually and it reminded me of this time where no please
Leila: Well I was just going to say of course mean it makes sense because there's no deeper connection you can share with somebody than one that spiritual you can have a lot of things in common or have fun with somebody but that just doesn't go as deep 
Jerrad: Yeah one of the wives said [8:48] I’m trying to find it here there’s a lot of  answers one of them said essentially I can't share the most important thing uh how did she say it I can't share the most important things to the most important person
Leila: Yeah that’s tough
Jerrad: It reminded me I told you the story earlier today but it reminded me when I was in church and I was a young man I only went to this church up until like I don’t remember how old I was but I remember being young and I overheard an older woman say this to a high school student so I was just like it was even said to me and this is how big of an impact it made on me as a young kid but she said the high school student was talking about wanting to be with somebody who wasn't a follower of Jesus and the older woman said 
Leila: Wait why would they want to be with someone who is not a follower? 
Jerrad: Wait what?
Leila: What did you say? 
Jerrad: The high schooler wanted to date someone who wasn't a follower of Jesus 
Leila: Who wasn’t a follower? Oh their goal wasn’t to be they just found somebody they liked and that person wasn’t a follower you’re saying I see sorry I thought you meant they were like hey lady I want to be with someone who's not a follower 
Jerrad: Oh no
Leila: They'd already met someone and they like this girl 
Jerrad: Yeah 
Leila: Ok got it sorry
Jerrad: No this is good I don’t know how many times I don't make sense until you’re here and apparently I don't make sense often yeah so this girl it was a girl she really liked this boy but the boy wasn't a Christian and she's like you know what do I do I really like him but he’s not a Christian [10:14] and the older woman said if he doesn't have that in common you guys have nothing in common if Jesus is everything you have nothing in common and that really stuck out to me because I always thought you know like well we kind of you know a lot of people think this and I thought this when I was young maybe we disagree on like religion and he'll he's got his own Journey she's got her own journey of people think this but we like the same music we are so connected in all these other ways and to hear this older woman say if you don't have Jesus in common you have nothing in common Jesus being everything I think a lot of people who are married right now maybe your spouse says yeah I’m a Christian and maybe this was something you talked about before you got married at a kind of a low-level or maybe you didn't even address it and you just assumed they go to church or they're not opposed to going to church or they're not opposed to being a Christian they grew up Catholic or they got kind of some loose family traditions I wasn’t trying to throw Catholicism under the bus there I'm just saying like maybe they just grew up in a traditionally religious home but they weren't like really practicing following the ways of Jesus and so now being married your relationship is potentially growing Jesus is captivating your heart more and more you’re becoming more and more a disciple of His [11:30] and at the same time your spouse isn't there's a deep loneliness there and by the way we don't have any miraculous answers here this is a hard topic but I want to give some hope
Leila: We've been through it ourselves 
Jerrad: That's what I wanted to talk about next is that all those years that you were falling away from Jesus and I was praying for you 
Leila: Shut up listen I got to be on the show more often because I think you're talking smack about me and I don't even know 
Jerrad: It’s not true at all now there was a season in particular I think we all go through ebbs and flows of my relationship with Jesus but there was a very particular season I’ve talked a lot about this in the book and on podcast interviews and what not but a very particular season I would say I was rebellious towards God [12:15] and rebellious is towards the ways of God the ways of Jesus and that was well I’ll just let you
Leila: That was crushing 
Jerrad: Yeah what did that feel like for you 
Leila: Well I mean I didn't grow up in the church and so when I met you I had you know within the last few years had just become a Christian and really had fallen in love with Jesus and I met you and you were a pastor at a church and it’s like a fairy tale and I thought I had my fairytale and we were married and several years in yeah you just got in this funk you know a series of things that happened I think life's circumstances and you had like you said become not just like I just kind of feel distant from God it was like rebellious it was I actually want nothing to do with God
Jerrad: I don’t think I said that
Leila: No you didn't say it
Jerrad: But I certainly felt it
Leila: Felt it yeah and it felt that way because anytime I would try and say something like that you know maybe we should pray about it you just not interested well let's talk to so-and-so from the church kind of our mentors you know that that we trust and know we love they love Jesus and they love us and and you are not interested didn't want to do it and it was incredibly painful to watch you spiral and kind of unravel and I was like well what am I supposed to do that like how do we move forward together if you like firmly have this stake in the ground and you were not willing to move forward in that way with me and I didn't even know how to like repair our marriage because then of course our marriage was in a really hard spot you were unkind a lot of the time and how do we raise the kids in this environment where it was just really dark [14:02] and then when you don't have this foundation together anymore it was like I don't even know how to repair it but we can't like go to church together pray together we can't go to these like Christian mentors that we know and trust and it was really tough 
Jerrad: I imagine you probably felt hopeless in a lot of ways 
Leila: Oh yeah for sure and it was but that's something that God taught me that I don't think I could have learned without having gone through that season but it was completely hopeless for me there was I realized that there's just absolutely nothing I could do to change your heart and that's not like a dark sad thing that was a realization I had to come to there was just nothing I could do to save you and so it certainly drew me to Jesus because that's all I could have that's all I knew that was the only hope that we had 
Jerrad: Well yeah and the way that it that season kind of we transitioned out of that season because I'm sure a lot of people are going to be like what happened because now DadTired is here obviously we’re in a great spot in our marriage and spiritually and 
Leila: I mean at the moment though  I didn’t think we would make it 
Jerrad: No I didn’t either 
Leila: I thought wow I'm really going to be I'm going to be a single mom I'm going to have to we're going to have separate homes I was like envisioning this life that we had built was now no longer going to be that’s like how hopeless and bad it was 
Jerrad: I was thinking those things too and it sucked that was a crappy season really crappy season I love you
Leila: I love you too
Jerrad: It’s good that God has been good to us restored us but so Leila we were in the middle of fight I’ve shared this story a bunch of times so forgive me if I'm double storying you guys but Leila we were in the middle of that season in a really because I just imagined there a lot of husbands and wives listening to this who are just like gosh I've been there we’re there we’re in that season it feels hopeless what are we going to do how do I move forward from this and we were in that season and we're fighting we're in our bedroom of our old house and the middle fight you said something to me and I could tell like oh this going to be another fight and we were fighting all the time then and I'm so distracted by what you doing right now 
Leila: I'm sorry well listen you guys I pick my nail polish off and I leave the speckles all over the place and Jerrad just can’t stand it 
Jerrad: And here it’s going to be the end of our marriage again right here in front of everybody
Leila: I’ll vacuum it up 
Jerrad: You just put those nails on you would just ask me like two days ago do you like these nails 
Leila: They’re not false nails it’s just polish I could put some more on [16:37] 
Jerrad: Oh my gosh 
Leila: It’s fine 
Jerrad: It’s like pencil shavings all over the
Leila: Ok I’ll quit
Jerrad: It  reminds me of when Leila and I got married on our honeymoon because you this is a day I've looked forward to my entire life I’m like this is it man during the reception I was like counting down the hours until it was over I was like I cannot wait to get this girl back to the hotel
Leila: Ok
Jerrad: We’re about to go to Hawaii the next day and so we’re staying at hotel I'm like a husband I’m like this is it man
Leila: Here’s the thing ok so when you get married and I didn't know I don't typically I don't go to the salon I don't get my makeup done I don't get my nails done I don't get my hair done but here it's my wedding day so I thought that it's like well I guess I have to get all dolled up and so I got nails on somebody put some eyelashes on my eyelids
Jerrad: Which by the way you already have huge eyelashes
Lelia: I do have [17:32] I'm Persian and Persians have lovely eyelashes but I didn't know you know that you just I don't know I just thought I have to put eyelashes on because it's my wedding day 
Jerrad: Yeah so thank you for that segue so we were you know we get back to the hotel I think I go to the bathroom kind of get freshened up take the button off button up shirt off undo the tie come out Leila is laying on the bed and their eyelashes spread everywhere I’m just like what is happening 
Leila: I've never had fake eyelashes on and so you know I'm just so conscious of these things on my eyeballs so I just start picking them off and putting them on the bed spread and he comes out here is his new bride surrounded by
Jerrad: eyelashes 
Leila: Little flips of hair 
Jerrad: And that wasn't even the craziest part of the night Leila falls asleep we 
Leila: I have a 9 o’clock bedtime strict
Jerrad: We were going to go on our honeymoon the next day and we’re pour young couple and everyone had given us all this money you know for gifts and the the cards and we forgot all of our cards at the wedding so then I have to call my mom call on my wedding night hey can you bring actually one of my best friend Casey show knocks on the door like I'm sorry dude I know what's I'm sorry this is so awkward and then Leila fell asleep and I went down to the Hotel bar and watched a UFC fight and that is not how I envisioned my honeymoon but here we are four kids later
Leila: Listen we had a fine time in Hawaii it was fine you were telling the story
Jerrad: I was telling the story let's get back to the juicy stuff
Leila: Of how we had a fight 
Jerrad: Let’s get back to the juicy stuff
Leila: We were in a fight at the old house 
Jerrad: Old house we were fighting you said something and I thought ok here we go we’re about to fight I get all the testosterone I'm like let's go let's battle it out immature masculinity at its best let me just say something to hurt you and win and feel powerful 
Leila: You would purposely try to say something hurtful [19:37] that's what was so terrible 
Jerrad: Immature masculinity and so I said something to hurt you and you got tears in your eyes which Leila’s a rock emotionally and softer as she gets older 
Leila: I do I’m getting a little soft
Jerrad: So she's got tears in her eyes and I thought oh I’m winning this argument and in my immaturity I thought I'm winning and you looked at me and this was a life-changing moment for me you looked at me and you said Jerrad I want you to know so tenderly you said this I really believe it was a Holy Spirit moment 
Leila: It was because I could have killed you 
Jerrad: You are ruining the story it’s so beautiful and you said you're at I've been waking up at 2 in the morning every morning and I go into the living room and I've been praying that God would capture your heart again every time I tell this story I always say I would have rather you cussed me out at that moment I was ready to fight I was not ready for you to slap me with the love of Jesus and the grace of Jesus which you did and in that moment I realized and we've talked about this so much since then but you knew you did not have the power to change my heart you could have nagged me like you just said I could have killed you you were far from God not that all spouses are being rebellious and mean they're just not interested in the things of God which we’ll talk about in a second [20:49] but I was pretty far on that Spectrum like I wasn't just not interested I was rebellious towards you and the things of God and so you said those words and it really on the Holy Spirit used that to just take a wrecking ball to the giant wall that I built up in my heart and that was the start of God bringing me back to him which is how we got to where we are today and I think we’ll talk about this at the end here potentially but I think for any couple or any person listening and your spouse is not interested if you take away any point today it's what Leila would just say there that she realized I am not in control of my spouse I cannot change their heart and there's only one heart changer it's the holy spirit it's the one who can do the work that I cannot do and so all I'm left to do is pray and ask Jesus to do what I cannot personally do because here's the thing husband here's the thing wife listening you cannot nag your way to getting your spouse to fall in love with Jesus nobody surrendered their life to Christ because they were nagged to and you keep checking in on spiritual things over and over and over it probably will feel like nagging why don't you ever want to go to church just read your Bible for once in your life read a book listen to an audiobook nobody’s going to come to know Christ that way nobody's going to surrender to the love and the grace of Jesus because you nagged them or guilted them to do it 
Leila: That’sThat’s true 
Jerrad: And it reminded me your posture that you took that day in the you know in that room when you said that 1 Peter 3:1 says that wives in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands which I could not imagine the level of humility it took for you to do that to not only to actually get up and pray which you were doing you weren’t just making that up 
Leila: No I really was
Jerrad: You were doing that the level of humility that it takes to do that knowing I'm wrong I'm the one in the wrong and you were humble enough to say I'm going to wake up and pray for him but then to say that to me you know to not come at me with Jerrad you're freaking idiot you know you suck as a man right now get your crud together all the things you could have rightly said you didn't it reminds me of that 1 Peter 3:1 that level of like submission not to I'm going to be a doormat just let you walk all over me there is you know I always feel like I need to be clear on this there is verbal abuse and physical abuse no spouse should go through and Jesus would not ask you to go through that we're not asking you we’re not telling you to submit yourself in a way to be a doormat where you were abused but there is a level of humility where you submitted yourself to the spirit of God to the Covenant of the marriage [23:26]
Leila: Yeah and you know what was cool when I did that is God kept my heart soft toward you when normally like in my flesh because I can be kind of spicy sometimes if I feel
Jerrad: You got a lot of spice
Leila:  I got a little spice if I feel like there is Injustice or somebody's unkind I don't tolerate unkindness or just immaturity I don't like that at all like
Jerrad: If there are people being unreasonable you hate
Leila: I hate when people are unreasonable 
Jerrad: There was nothing I was doing anything more than being unreasonable 
Leila: Jerrad was unreasonable and he was unkind he was very emotional and using his emotions as a weapon and it really like in my flesh at I hate that I hate when people do that I hated that you were doing it even then but God somehow protected my like this tenderness towards you because I was sad that this wasn't happening I mean I was angry and we did fight but I I still kept this tenderness towards you [24:26] I don't think that could have happened if it weren't for the spirit of God working that way in me 
Jerrad: For the husband who is listening right now and your spouse is far from God for the wife who is listening and your spouse is far from God just know that right even as Leila says that that's our prayer for you is that your heart would remain soft and tender toward your spouse because it will be so easy to move towards bitterness and there's nothing the enemy wants more than to just put heaps of bitterness in between
Leila: Apathy I don't care anymore yeah that's a dangerous place to be and that is precisely what Satan would where he would try and get you 
Jerrad: Let me pray for those couples right now [25:07] won’t be long Jesus for the person who's listening and their spouse is far from God far from you right now and Lord they can feel that bitterness creeping in they can feel that apathy just alright throwing their hands up and saying whatever I'm over it I'm not even going to try anymore God I pray that you would not let the enemy win that battle Lord for the person who's listening that resonates with this deeply I pray that you would by your grace soften their heart God that you would give them an unreasonable amount of grace that it would make sense to the world the world would say how in the world do you keep putting up with this maybe even the Church or their Christian friends would say gosh I'm so sorry you're dealing with a lot of God that you would give them an overwhelming amount of grace and a patient of steadfastness of long-suffering of tenderness of love God that they would see their spouse as a son or daughter who is run far from you and you so badly want them back that would be their vision the lens that they see their spouse through and and so just protect their heart protect their marriage God do not let bitterness creep in I pray that specifically for the person who's feeling the weight of the bitterness and apathy and hopelessness right now I pray that your name amen
Leila: Amen [26:25]
Jerrad: The rest of that verse says wives in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that if any of them do not believe the word they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives man that's good news 
Leila: Thats cool 
Jerrad: That they may be even if they're not in the word even if the spirit of God feels like it just like it there's nothing there that they would still be won over what’s it say won over without words by the behavior of their wives and I pray that too for the husband's you know that your wife would see you being consistent over and over and over and though even though they're not in the word that they would be lead to Christ even without words by your behavior would that be the truth there [27:11]
Leila: Yeah and for the wives to the ones that are dragging their husbands to church and dragging them to the  Bible study or home group or whatever that that God would just give you the perseverance and the peace to know too that it's not it's not you that's going to save them or all those works but that they would just see your steadfastness and your grace toward them and that they’d be won over 
Jerrad: I think it's important to recognize that your frustrations wanting your spouse to be on the same page of you spiritually that's actually a longing for how it was supposed to be those frustrations are good they’re an indicator for you that man it wasn't meant to be like this when God created man and woman and he puts them together to be one it was oneness in every sense of the word physically intimate emotionally intimate relationally intimate spiritually intimate like God meant oneness in every sense of that word and so your frustration that you are not one spiritually with your spouse it's just an indicator man this isn't how it's supposed to be and our hearts long for God to make all things right again any time we feel that kind of like frustration we feel that with death with sickness
Leila: Yeah any illness yeah
Jerrad: It's a reminder to us this isn’t the way humans were supposed to be and so just instead of turning that towards bitterness one would you turn it back to thankfulness that God has not left us in our misery that he didn't leave us forever in our sin and destruction but he said I will make all things there will be a day no more crying no more tears no more pain no more sickness I will wipe away every tear from every eye that's the good news of the gospel there's a new hope coming [28:58] but it's also coming right now it's a day that our hearts long for but it's also God has started that redemption now 
Leila: And uses marriage to do that what a like honor to be a tool that God uses to draw your spouse back to him like that was that's really cool to know that you're you are a tool that God is using for his glory that’s really neat I remember when we were in that season we had a funny to think about now in our bathroom we had do you remember this it was a a little chalkboard and I used to write you little sweet messages on that thing and then we were in this fight and so of course the sweet messages were a lot less often 
Jerrad: The board started to get a little empty 
Leila: Yeah the board was left blank for a while but I remember that God showed me a verse and I wrote it do you remember it because you were so angry all the time you're just angry and unkind and unpleasant to be around but I remember it was a verse about God's kindness you know He’s it was something about like being drawn back to God drawn to repentance by his kindness
Jerrad: Yeah Romans don't you know that it's his kindness that leads you to repentance
Leila: Yeah and I remember thinking that and just like praying that over you that like you would remember and recognize God's kindness and now even God's kindness through me that he would draw you to repentance and he did
Jerrad: Yeah you gave me a glimpse of the Gospel that I'm fully known in all my junk and all my sin you saw me at my worst [30:36] and you didn't leave and you should have and I knew you should have but you didn't and you gave me a glimpse of the Gospel it was that it was your kindness it was the holy spirit's kindness through you given to me that gave me a clear glimpse of the gospel and that's what you can do for your spouse that your kindness would actually lead them to repentance not your nagging not your your guilt tripping not your if you could just get pull yourself up by your bootstraps figure this out our family needs you to do this but your kindness might lead them to repentance men there's so many things I want to keep hitting here one of things that I think it's important as a mindset shift and this kind of goes to what we were talking about it with what you were just saying I think a lot of us in all areas of marriage look at our spouse as somebody that can serve us well [31:26] I need you to meet my needs physically I need you to meet my needs emotionally I need you to meet my needs spiritually and when you don't if I come into marriage and I think you are going to meet all my needs even subconsciously I think all those things when you don't bitterness is real quick to grow and you see this in all kinds of what you see this a lot of guys physically sexually you you're supposed to meet all my needs and when you don't know I'm justifying whatever I'm going to justify and so the same I think it's true for spiritually God's design is that you would be one in spiritually that you would have an intimacy spiritually but if I'm coming into marriage thinking you were supposed to give me that and now you're not and so now what's going to happen quickly as I'm just bitter towards you versus the mindset of God has given me you and you to me so that I can help you become all of who God wants you to be [32:27] that is my role for you in marriage before the creation the world he planned for us to be together and he's using me to help you become the woman that he has called you and designed you to be and so that mindset is I'm here to serve you I'm not here to be served by you now ideally both people in the relationship are thinking that and it's beautiful when that's happening with two people are thinking how can I serve you a relationship flourishes and it's hard when one person isn't thinking that I get that but you have to keep your mindset God has given your spouse you so that they can become the person that he wants them to be and so if your husband is not leading or your wife is not engaged spiritually instead of growing bitterness you think God what is it that you would want me to do how can I partner with you in seeing her become a little bit more seeing him become a little bit more closer to you does that make sense did I explain that right or
Leila: Yeah 
Jerrad: So with that I think so really practically here when like when a wife has asked me I’ve talked about this on other podcasts where it's was primarily a women audience or mother audience [33:36] they’ve asked me how can a wife encourage their husband to lead spiritually here’s one thing I would say questions are good you guys know me I say this a lot on the podcast one of the best leaders I’ve ever met are the best question-askers very good question askers the better you can get at coming up with creative heart level questions the better you are going to be as a leader so questions are good but some questions are bad and so and specifically in the topic of lead or engaging your spouse-to-be the spiritual leader or engage spiritually with you questions like what's God teaching you lately [34:12] might be a bad question
Leila: It might be yeah
Jerrad: Might be if I know that you're resistant towards the things of God in this particular season of life 
Leila: Or if you’re in a low spot or you know kind of in that season where you don’t feel close to God and someone says hey what's God doing in your life right now oh well thanks for asking nothing 
Jerrad: Exactly exactly
Leila: Thanks for pointing it out 
Jerrad: Yeah and it can feel condescending because my wife knows like if you were to ask me in that season what's God teaching you today your like what the Hell are you asking me you know I don’t feel close to God right now so it feels condescending to me and it feels judgy and one of the guys actually said that in the poll I just did on instagram it's hard to bring up the things of God or to ask questions without feeling self-righteous or judgmental and so some questions you ask can feel judgemental or self-righteous and so maybe a better question would be first pray before you even ask questions that God would give you that tender spirit that Leila was talking about earlier and when you have that tender spirit and you're not coming through a lens of bitterness but through a lens of tenderness and then you can ask a question like hey how do you feel like or where do you feel like you're at with God right now [35:22] And that kind of question with the right posture and tone can really give somebody the freedom to say I don't feel close to God at all right now those two things paired that question hey how do you where do you feel like you're at with God right now and with a gentle spirit and a gentle posture and then somebody saying I don't feel close to God I promise you just those two things alone next to each other is going to build intimacy you are now safe I’ve you a question which has teed up that I'm a safe place for you to land and now you've said something vulnerable and now our intimacy is growing and that's going to start taking you guys on the right track and so ask your spouse questions like that hey how you doing it seems like you're having a hard time is there anything I can do like you want a process that you want to talk about it
Leila: Yeah and not the follow-up question shouldn’t be like why
Jerrad: Right
Leila: Why is often not a good question because most people whether it’s your child you’re trying to discipline why did you do that or why aren’t you close to Godor you know whatever it is why is often not a good question [36:25] but yeah like what do you think has contributed to that what is there something I could do that would help something like that 
Jerrad: What story are you believing 
Leila: Yeah what story are you telling yourself about God because sometimes it's like well I have and I feel like I've been living in a certain way that's not God-honoring and so now I just don't want to pray and I haven't prayed in a long time you know you may uncover some of those things 
Jerrad: Most guys feel like they’re bad guys I don't feel like a good guy and so I can't really approach God can't really approach my wife and kids about things spiritually I can coach T-ball coach the soccer team the football team I can maybe help with homework from time to time or science project or whatever because I'm decent at all that stuff but when it comes to the things of God I feel far from God and so how in the world am I going to lead my kids my wife towards Jesus and so again that would just be the kindness of God that you've experienced the kindness and grace of God the truth is you're not a good dude but God didn’t bail on you that’s how much he loves you you did not meet his standards of righteousness you fell short and instead of bailing he said man I love you so much I'm coming for you still I'm not bailing on you and when you experience that grace you’re like man okay I want to start to follow Jesus and so that's my prayer that every guy would start to understand the goodness [37:50] of God the kindness of God and it would lead them to repentance so maybe some questions that you just think through as a spouse if your wife or husband is far from God think through good questions that are tender soft give them a soft place to land 
Leila: How’s your heart you ask me that sometimes
Jerrad: How’s your heart yeah we’ll start to wrap up here but one thing that I think is something that it's worth addressing because I said it at the very beginning of the podcast where husband might be he just joined the family leadership program he's putting all this in all this work to be the man that God has called him to be the leader that God has called him to be and his wife is completely unengaged and a lot of times I've heard this numerous times guys say my wife seems more interested in social media scrolling through Instagram or Pinterest or Facebook or Tik-Tok or whatever and so I don't really know how to engage her because she just wants to be on the phone all day you’ve said something interesting about that about about kind of phone 
Leila: Yeah it's hard because I mean we have 4 kids and and I'm an introvert and that’s you know extroverts might roll their eyes but like being an introvert and having a lot of kids and having to be needed and on for the majority of the day is really really exhausting and when you feel that level of just being depleted emotionally and physically it is really hard to not want to just check out and the phone I think what I said earlier is I mean it is a check out but it's just kind of a more socially acceptable way to cope with just the exhaustion of being a mom or just being a parent in general [39:25] and I think what probably before cell phones and before social media when you can just pull your phone out of your pocket at any second that you just need to check out zone out used to be like I'm going to have a glass of wine or two or three or four you know and just kind of get for some people just a little bit buzzed and that was enough or used to people go it's the same coping mechanism and it’s the same mechanism in your brain is as using some sort of substance is the phone it's just a way to kind of disengage from the hardship and not a hardship like oh poor me I'm a mom and that's hard but it's stressful it's hard it's exhausting and it's this is an easy and socially acceptable way to check out I mean how mad are you going to be at me for just looking at my phone I’ve had a hard day I just want to check out but man that phone has really robbed families of what could be really great intentional time together I mean even if right now if you guys just look in your settings at the usage of your phone it's amazing how hours add up I just if someone said Leila you actually have like four hours of your day that you're not that you have available to maybe you know do some more productive family thing with your kids your husband or it's some spiritual discipline like read your Bible or journal or something I would say no I don't have 4 hours in my day but oh my gosh if I look at my usage holy cow how is that possible so yeah it's just a coping mechanism social media [41:00]
Jerrad: Yeah here's what I would say to the husband or wife and this is not that’s not a wife thing
Leila: No it’s not absolutely not
Jerrad: It’s a everybody thing right now and so here’s what I would say to that is one of the greatest things that you can do we actually talk about this in the family leadership program too is figuring out how to give your spouse the gift of rest soul rest and so if you see there's some kind of abuse of they’re on this phone a ton or they're drinking too much alcohol or they’re binge watching something so you start to recognize a pattern where it seems like they're just longing to check out you might just ask figure out a way how can I help you how can I lead you into rest and because your soul is just tired and you're searching for something to give your soul a little bit of rest and so maybe you need a practice sabbath more as a family we’ve done lots of episodes about sabbath we talk about this family leadership program maybe you just need to give your wife or your husband a break for hey here's one hour just go to the coffee shop or I’ll watch all the kids while you go on a walk or go work out or whatever you need to do but there's probably something deeper happening there [42:07] so instead of just you're always on your phone all the time another way of saying that is hey how can I help you find a little bit of rest during the week 
Leila: Yeah and it really is an addiction that's not an exaggeration or not being dramatic like there are plenty of studies that describe social media addiction and the addiction to technology and things like that it’s a legitimate really concerning actually addiction and so husbands and wives are experiencing this and then of course children are watching their parents on their phones all day long and then the children are also engaging in the social media addiction so even just a practical thing to do is just delete the app off your phone you don’t have to like deactivate your account but you just get the app off of your phone and you'd be amazed how much time is freed up when it's just not super easy to just flip open that app and start scrolling just get it off your phone start their 
Jerrad: Yeah that’s an easy
Leila: That’s not the heart issue but that’s a really practical way to start
Jerrad: Yeah you can do that right now that’s one of the reasons I like the watch we have iPhones but the Apple Watch because you can't really do any social media on them on the watch but you can still get phone calls if you need to get a phone call 
Leila: Call and text message [43:19] it’s totally available 
Jerrad: I can even check my email if something really came through but they are expensive so that’s not as easy of a fix alright I want to end with a couple thoughts as I was thinking through this just God how can I help encourage the spouse who feels like their spouse is far from God here's some things I came up with the first thing is before the creation of The World God knew exactly who you would marry and he planned that intentionally I fully believe that and so the fact that you're with your particular spouse is not an accident and I believe it’s actually God-ordained [43:53] again remember your primary role is that God would use you to help your spouse become everything he desires them to be and so and 
Leila: For holiness not just your happiness 
Jerrad: Exactly and so the fact that God has given your spouse who feels far from him right now a spouse who loves Jesus if you're listening to this podcast right now and you say I love Jesus and I want to be more like him the fact that God gives your spouse you is evidence that he is already pursuing their heart they're not off with some other person that rejects all the things of God but they're married to somebody who loves God that should be comforting enough to you to know God's pursuing them he is pursuing their heart already and so just rest in that I say the same thing for your kids the fact that God gave your kids you as a parent and you want your kids to fall in love with Jesus is just evidence God is already chasing them down so don't lose hope God is chasing their hearts down even if you can't see any evidence of it there's clear evidence in the fact that you are their spouse the second thing I would say is your steadfastness will most likely produce fruit and so do not grow weary we think so short everything that we do is so short and quick an instant but you know 15-year we’ve been married 10 years 15 years 20 years five years whatever and these are just here today gone tomorrow it’s like the wind you know forgotten just means those are such short time frames 
Leila: Yeah it doesn't feel like it in the I mean we were in that season it was like 
Jerrad: All-consuming 
Leila: All-consuming every day was a battle and it was exhausting every day just sucked and that is a hard way to live but now I'm like we talk about that is a thing of the past that was a thing that we went through and thank God we didn't like let that short-term battle like totally win the war [45:45] 
Jerrad: I’ve heard these stories and I pray that for you listening that this would be your story that you know you hear the stories you know I was rebellious I was far from God but my wife was so faithful she prayed for us she read the Bible she stuck with the Lord or my husband was so faithful and he just stuck with it even when I was far from God he was faithful to the Lord may that be your story when you’re 80 90 years old and you’ve been married for decades and decades and decades and you both love Jesus and you’re holding hands on a porch and you're looking at your grandkids who are following the Lord would your story be I didn't give up I didn't grow weary I had steadfastness I'm believing with you it will produce fruit [46:22] stick with it it takes a long time there’s a lot of soil to be tilled here did I say that right tilled toiled
Leila: You can toil and toil and till the land 
Jerrad: I’m not sure how I even one book to be honest 
Leila: I got to go listen to all your podcasts now and fix them up 
Jerrad: Number three again just some things that I was thinking about as ways of to try to encourage you and give you hope because it is not hopeless number three God is in it for the long haul this goes with what we just talked about even when you don't see the change God’s story with your spouse isn't over he's not looking at your spouse and being like ah I guess this is it we tried 
Leila: Yeah they’re in a tough season guess that's over [47:04] yeah 
Jerrad: We tried you know you tried I thought for sure if I gave him you as their spouse they’d fall in love with me and clearly that didn't work so see you in heaven not at all God’s story with your spouse is not over he's in it for the long haul and ultimately God is the heart changer like we talked about you cannot change your heart and so pray and pray fiercely and often you need Holy Spirit to do work that you cannot do and I'm going to say one thing last thing here and it’s going to feel controversial when I first say it let me finish my whole though before you unsubscribe from this podcast your family and your kids do not actually need a Dad or Mom who leads them spiritually and let me finish the whole thought here is that God's best for your family and for your kids and for your relationship absolutely God wants 
Leila: That they would have a mom and dad yeah
Jerrad: God wants moms dads to be United spiritually to raise kids together on the same page who love him they’re on the same page spiritually they're growing together [48:10] that is God's desire but does he need it to save your kids no God is ultimately ultimately not limited by where your spouse is spiritually and what he can do in your family and what he can do in you God is still at work the Bible says that if the rocks are if you don't worship Him the rocks and trees will cry out if God can use rocks and trees he can use anything to draw your heart closer to him and to draw your kids hearts closer to him and so as for the wife listening who’s just like I'm worried about my kids because they don't have a dad who loves Jesus and is leading them God can still save your kids 
Leila: Don't despair 
Jerrad: He can still draw their hearts near to him and they can be passionate followers of his even if dad doesn't show up same is true with mom if mom is not showing up and leading and participating in the spiritual journey of her kids God can still show up and will show up and save your kids and they can still love him deeply is it best no but God doesn't have limitations he doesn't play within the box that we all want to put him in God can do anything [49:17] and so do not give up and do not be despaired 
Leila: Don't despair 
Jerrad: Do not despair God is a he's gracious 
Leila: And how cool is it didn't you just have a kid on who gave his life to Jesus he was a young boy and God used the son to chase down the father and the dad then also gave up I think alcoholism 
Jerrad: Stopped in a day 
Leila: Stopped in a day because his little boy gave his heart to Jesus 
Jerrad: That was such a powerful story 
Leila: That was really cool yeah your listener should go back and find that that was good
Jerrad: Yeah God is using your kids even to save and maybe God will use your kids to bring your your spouse's heart back but as I prayed early don't grow weary and don't grow bitter God’s not surprised by any of this and he's not giving up the story for your spouse is not over in the eyes of God he doesn't stop pursuing 
Leila: In those dry seasons real quick I know we’re trying to wrap up [50:14] but you know when people are just like well just pray about where like if you've ever been in that season where you just feeling kind of far from God and someone's like well just pray about it what it's like
Jerrad: what else you got
Leila: It’s like ok well that’s precisely what I don't want to do I don't feel like it and then you just get into these like where it's been weeks and months maybe even years since you prayed to God because you don't feel like it you feel are from God but even if you start your prayer life with like God I don't feel like talking to you I don't know if your listening I don't even know if I care like just be so he can handle it [50:52] you know and just start the conversation that way
Jerrad: Take a step towards Jesus I want to say one thing
Leila: Maybe just a stumble stumble that way
Jerrad: I want to say one last thing before we wrap up and it's a little bit off topic but because I have you on the show a couple weeks ago I talked about there was an episode called change the world with me and so go back and listen to that if you haven't already but I really talked about how I’ve taken DadTired I feel like as far as I can take it personally and I just feel like I need the help of DadTired guys like come alongside of me let's change the world together probably the most raw podcast I’ve ever and since then you guys have overwhelmed us with love and support and been like we are we're in this together when I recorded that episode we had 28 guys who are partnering with us financially monthly 28 monthly Financial Partners and since then we've surpassed over a hundred people [51:45] who've come alongside said who just say I believe in this ministry I believe in you guys I believe what God’s going to do and I want to be all in and I want to see the team grow and I want to see the ministry grow and so I just want to say thank you like with Leila here sitting here she has sacrificed so much Leila works her booty off you know she still working as a nurse often times 2-3 days a week long shifts to really sustain our family as I've tried to just be obedient to what God's done here in DadTired ministry and so for you guys to say I believe in it and I support you don't give up and let's see it grow is like 
Leila: That was awesome 
Jerrad: It's so so encouraging so 
Leila: Yeah you guys God has used that too to really encourage Jerrad to I'll just share that's like you've been doing this for 6 years or something and you know just tons of listeners in a lot of support online and stuff and people engaged online with the podcast and then I'm speaking for you maybe I shouldn’t but you know and then when it's like okay we've got 28 of the thousands and thousands of listeners 28 of them are donating I’m sure like discouraging like it is this not valuable or helpful and but it was really nice when you brought it to their attention that we you know it’s not free to host podcasts and and all the stuff that goes into this is your full-time gig and it was hard for a long time I think discouraging but it was it's been very encouraging to know that when you heard that there was a need you guys stepped up and that was really that's awesome thank you
Jerrad: So blessed by it so I just want to say thank you guys [53:20] love you guys a ton I hope that this is helpful for you and will continue to just be on your team man we’re championing you to see the glory of God grow in families we really believe that this is what's going to change the world are families who love Jesus and raise kids and grandkids who love Jesus so thanks for being part of this DadTired family we love you and we'll see you next time [53:42]