In today's episode of the Dad Tired podcast, host Jerrad Lopes sits down with Mike and Bart from the band MercyMe to talk about why it takes a village to raise our kids. The band members also share their own journeys as fathers, and what they learned from their fathers, as well. A must listen to episode for any Christian dad looking to become the spiritual leader of his home.
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Why It Takes A VillageTo Raise Our Kids (With MercyMe)
Jerrad: In today's episode of the DadTired podcast I sit down with Bart and Mike from the band MercyMe to talk about why it takes a village to raise our kids.[0:08] [Intro until [4:52] Jerrad: [4:53] Bart and Mike from MercyMe so glad you're hanging out with us today for the audience who has been living under a rock for the last few decades and may not know about you tell us who you are and what you're up to these days [5:06] Bart: Well I'm Bart I'm a Sagittarius I like long walks on the beach I'm the lead singer of a band called MercyMe and Mike is first chair guitar. Mike: Uh second chair, I’m right behind Bart though. I’m working real hard at it. Jerrad: You guys have been doing this a long time man. Bart: Yeah, it's funny you told us your [demographic] was 24-34 year old dads and we've been in MercyMe for 27 years so. Jerrad: Wow! Bart: Yeah, yeah we started [5:33] when we were one, I’m only 29. Mike: I don't feel old. Jerrad: Prodigies straight out of the room yep. Man, you've been doing music for decades a lot longer than some of these guys a lot longer than we've been trying to be a dad. Walk us through that journey like what has life been like, living on the road doing shows for, what did you say, 27 years? Bart: 27 years yeah... Jerrad: Dang! Bart: Started in ‘94 Jerrad: Yeah. You don't have any like, like can you contrast what normal, normal life is? Bart: We've heard rumors Mike: Yeah we're honestly like, like we do the whole band thing and it's a blast but we're pretty normal outside of that one, our job doesn't seem normal but everything else, I mean we're friends with accountants and stuff. Bart: Yeah yeah, totally. Our best friends are just mechanics and stuff. Jerrad: Yeah yeah yeah. [6:05] Mike: I think our lives are actually pretty boring, from what a lot of people would assume. Yeah and it's normal, normal is home. We love normal. Jerrad: Yeah, tell me about your family. You’re both dads? Bart: Yes, I am a new dad of five children and yes I've been married for a lot of years and so I think we're going on 24 years, coming up, and I have five kids, boy, girl, boy, girl, boy. Sam is 19 Gracie is 16 Charlie 15 Sofie is 12 and Miles just turned 10... Jerrad: Dang man. Bart: Yeah and so, I think, I got a letter in the mail that said I’m officially a dad so I was pretty excited. I got certificate Jerrad: Yeah, you're gonna get the letter on the jacket man. Your real dad-ing at this point. [7:06] Mike: I'm underachieving I only have four and uh.. Bart: But he adopted so.. Mike: yeah yeah, so we actually have biological, adopted, biological, adopted. Ben is 16 Millie is 15 Cam is 12 and Eli is 8. Jerrad: What was your heart behind adoption? Mike: My wife and I just both had… Bart: Do just things that are hard… Mike: Yeah it's like “how can we make our family in a difficult manner?” No, we just always had a heart for it. I don't know why, neither of us grew up with a an adoption story or really close to one at all and it was something that God just put on us even when we were dating we were talking how it would be beautiful to build our family in a way that was a little non traditional and uh blending them like in order to where its like nobody feels like they're out of place or like they were an afterthought [7:59] or anything like that. And just yeah, it kinda worked out. Bart: It's pretty amazing that their adopted kids if you had to pick you would most likely pick that those look like them… Mike: Well Cam is like my mini-me but yeah Bart: and Millie and even Eli’s curly hair Mike: Yeah oh, so people, so Eli is biracial so he's got this incredibly curly hair well my wife is incredibly caucaisan but also has really curly hair and people say all the time “aw yeah he got your hair” and shes like “mmmhmm sure!” Jerrad: Thats awesome! Bart: And don't start a podcast called “incredibly caucasian” Jerrad: Yeah that's not gonna work in 2021 Bart: What's cool about Mike too is that it's like it's insane to watch him go to Kazakhstan where he adopted Millie and then it's like now that we just got that figured out let's adopt domestically in west texas like even the processes are not even close. [8:49] Mike: Yeah. No it like completely like Millie we had very little information about actually until recently and then with Eli you actually we actually have to have a relationship with his birth mom and still do Jerrad: Oh cool Mike: Yeah very different scenarios but still both beautiful and broken and all of the things. Jerrad: One of the things we talk a lot about at the DadTired community is like stepping into kingdom adventures with your family as a dad leading your family into kingdom adventures we talk about how a lot of times guys frankly just get bored and bored men are dangerous men when everybody is kinda just like sitting around. You know so we find ourselves doing dumb stuff when were just bored so just trying to encourage guys alright what does it look like for you to lead your family into adventure? for the sake of God's glory and some of that in that in that conversation we talk about fostering and adoption that comes up a lot as just kind of a natural progression of conversation i guess maybe what advice would you have for a guy thats like “maybe I got the foster thing on my heart or [9:43] adoption thing on my heart and i'm absolutely terrified and maybe that's a one day thing but like how can I lead my family into that?” What would you give advice, what advice would you give? Mike: it's not a one day thing you will stay terrified and then when you actually get them and then the paperwork is all done you will still be terrified because you're parenting and it's just hard scary work and but the payoff is huge it's absolutely huge, yeah, its taking a big leap an enjoying the ride. Jerrad: Now how has that affected your marriage? Mike: She left 10 years ago… No! [10:12] [Laughter] Mike: She's like I'm out!” Jerrad: This is your thing man, Mike: Man you know its marriage, its awesome and cruel and all of again all of the things you know, it's the hardest thing in the world and the most revealing about yourself and the most amazing thing in the world to have somebody who is there with you, like on the team no matter what and so yeah it's amazing, it's incredible. Bart: We, I’ve always described parenting as; you're at a circus and they put chains on the doors where you can't get out [Laughter] Bart: Yeah it's chaos but it's a little bit entertaining and yeah you're right it's hard it's gratifying its irony at its finest you know it's easy and hard at the same time. Jerrad: Yeah, Bart did I hear your son sang on this last album? Did I make that up or is that true? Bart: Yeah! Sam my oldest hes 19 yeah he wrote a song and showed it to me and then he wrote it for some company that was trying to get some songs on American Idol and they were gonna pay him like a flat fee of a hundred bucks and I was like “naw dude, this song is actually good” the label and the guys heard it and they were like “man we should put it on the album not only will your son actually make a little bit of money…” which is great for me cause then he can move out one day [laughter] but also an he has an amazing voice but when i finally convinced him, it was that weird conversation when the label said man you guys should record this to where I was like I had to go and go “ok daddy loves your song, now daddy wants your song” is what it felt like I was doing while I was singing the demo just to show the guys my voice was shot and so I just said to sam “just finish the song for me it'll be fine they'll get the jist of” and then they were the label and band were like “man sam should stay on it its really really good” and so that was a super proud dad moment. Not only that he gets to do it but that i'm surrounded by that cause I would never like i'm so nervous about being that guy thats like hey put him on here that like im usually actually opposed to it most of the time you know ill be like nah let's not do it. And they'll once they convince me it's like ah this is amazing and it was such a cool moment and it and it turned out great it's a great song and he's killing it and it's what he wants to do and so its when most 19 year olds or teenagers are going you know whatever dad and doesn't listen to me that's just one place to where there's like a mutual respect of him trying to pull it off and him knowing that i've been there I was at that age and I really wanted to do it and stuff and he still listens and it's a really cool relationship. Mike: and from the outside I think it's awesome like the way sams obviously has a gift and a talent for it we've watched it grow like i literally taught him how to restring a guitar and now he's killing it hes really really becoming a solid musician and songwriter but like being able to watch him pursue it but not like riding his dad's coattails like hes Jerrad: yeah Mike: he seems to be really like chasing his own sound and his own songs and his own way of writing like its been really cool like he's not like shunning [13:13] anything it's just there's a respect and an honor but its like “i'm going to cut my own path through this” I think its been really cool to see like how Bart and Shannon like have like really fostered that and nurtured a way for him to be able to do that. Jerrad: yeah. Bart: yeah we let him like our manager kinda pushed him and let him sing it like a song like some of our bigger shows like red rock sold out he was like “Hey man, let him come out and sing a song” and we've let him and he's got the bug and there's a couple of labels who've asked and wanted to sign him and up until he's 18 I just wouldn't let him he was like “why won't you let me do it?” and I was like “ look dude when you sign and you get on that stage people expect you to know what you're gonna say or have something to say” and I was like “man and if your not there yet you're gonna hate jesus in five years” Jerrad: Hmmm Bart: So I was like just enjoy, love music enjoy it, there's plenty of time. It will become a job and become a bigger challenge so just keep doing what you're doing and he never fought it he was like ok Jerrad: Wow. Bart: ya know. And thats what hes doing it's just none of our band kids stand a chance [14:16] they have like 5 dads and so and it's funny because then they all speak into it and so if there's something to say sam won't hear it from me hell hear it from mike or barry or whoever and sometimes i know that and I’m like skip me go talk to mike or whatever. Jerrad: Yeah you've got more skin in the game here than I do with kids further down the road than I've got young kids how much of that have you found to be so valuable of other people especially other men speaking into your kids lives? Bart: Oh [14:45] oh it's priceless. Mike: Priceless. [Laughter] Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah just knowing like our front of house guy was here with us at the cabin this last week we've been doing some filming and stuff and he's a car guy [14:55] I am not a car guy my 16 year old is like headfirst into it like he can tear apart an engine knows everything he can know and he came up here and he's just sitting with Rick for like an hour just talking cars which seems like a small thing but it's like a huge thing because it's something I can't give him but I know I can trust Rick to pour into him even in that little car thing he can also pour into him with other wisdom and any of our kids it's the same thing I mean, our kids are together all the time (to Bart) I think Ben is spending the night at your house tonight so sorry but yeah it's like invaluable to know that there's a safe place that there's another like minded adult parent friend that loves your kid and wants to pour into him. Jerrad: Yeah. Bart: I was gonna say a friend of mine [15:39] his son when he graduated high school the night before graduation he put him on this kind of scavenger hunt and he had to go all over town and find these things and everywhere he went was one of the men that was apart of his life throughout his life like sunday school teacher and too it was a [Inaudible] and everywhere he went there were ten men and when they got there they told him they told this young man the man that they see and prayed over him and what he was gonna do man I remember him telling me like man this is the most beautiful thing ever I'm gonna do the same thing and then COVID hit and so we were able to get a lot of friends to celebrate Sams graduation in an open field but it was like a I just thought that was so beautiful man I don't think we do it enough I instill that. We are fortunate to kind of its naturally there because we're always together but man the wisdom, a friend of mine always called it the “father of the bride” syndrome if you ever saw that movie there's a scene where Steve Martin tells his daughter “it's cold outside get a jacket” [16:39] and shes like “whatever” and the fiance comes down and is like “man you need a jacket” and shes like “oh you're right! I’ll get a jacket!” and sometimes your kids are going to hear things that you've been telling them over and over but, from someone else. And just and sometimes and we get that and so I think there's so much value in having the right men especially speak into these young men's lives and what matters, and our daughters too man I don't think we lean on the wisdom of people that have gone before us enough like I feel like when I was a kid there was that and now I feel like i've become the old person in church and we've run them all off I don't know what happened. Mike: Well, I think that it's easy when you're like in the trenches with young kids it's hard to make it to bedtime let alone planning out man I really need to make sure that that i'm investing in this way or that whatever and so having those other friends who can come alongside who its like im exhausted with my kids but Bart might not be exhausted with my kids and he's gonna see the good where [17:35] I’m just like a little bit like I just wish you would pick the daggum towels up off the floor just once ya know? And he's not seeing that he's not dealing with that and visa-versa yeah its just priceless. Jerrad: Yeah I had a friend come stay with us for a couple days and at the end of it he just like looked me in the eyes [17:51] like “dude, you got some good kids man you're doing a good job” and I just got all choked up ya know, cause the whole time I was like put the stuff away clean up get to your ya know I’m just like in that mode of chaos and to have somebody objectively look and be like “dude you're doing a good job man” and watch him kinda what you guys are saying kind of parent I think that what I take away from that as a younger dad is you gotta surround yourself with some good dudes like some quality guys and this is why it's so important. One, I think a lot of dudes either one are just like picking our friends randomly or we don't really have a ton of friends as we get older and so that's not a high priority for us but it should be if we want to really create that good village and then two, is just thinking through like alright I gotta find guys around me who are going to speak into my kids lives which means I can't isolate myself I wanna come home I've been working hard i'm busy I got all kinds of stuff but this is another reason we gotta be in community even for our kids sake sometimes selfishly I'm like ah I don't really wanna be around people im tired ya know? But for my kids sake I need to be so I have quality dudes and women you know men and women who are around my kids helping me shepherd them but ya know my friend John Mark Comer I think he does with his kids I think he did it when his son turned 13 but similar to what you described Bart where it was like he brings all these men and it's like a full 24 hour [19:06] event and there going to different places and its these men speaking life over and it's like here's who God has made you to be here's who I see who Gods made you to be here's the kind of man you are ya know so it's just kinda like coming of age thing which is pretty cool. Mike: That's awesome, that's incredible. [Break 19:20] Bart: Man the best advice I was ever given when we were about to have Sam our first was somebody said man if you're worried about being a good parent or not you're probably a pretty good parent... Jerrad: Right, yeah. Bart: Like you're not gonna get it all right but it's the ones that scare me the most are the ones that just don't seem to care at all or just have like flatline like no yeah. I stressed everybody stresses about their first kid like i'm gonna break him there's no question it's gonna go wrong, for my wife and myself that was the best advice we could hear it was almost like we could just like exhale for a minute like okay, okay its the marathon not the sprint and um it is great like our guys somebody will say “man your kids are amazing” [20:30] and you're like yeah I was too close to this ya know why are they jerks at home or whatever it is [Laughter] its like its always good to hear and it's always very emotional when somebody says that. Jerrad: You've been on the road for like decades, playing music, and then all of a sudden COVID hit. That's probably the first time in a long time that you've actually been home so much. How is that like, how did that impact your guys’ family dynamic? For the first time being home that much after being on the road so much? [20:59] Mike: I would say it's the first time ever like we all were in the band when we got married like Bart was the first to get married and we weren't, i mean, we were really busy back then probably busier than we are not, but yeah it it's by far the absolute, it's never happened before. Bart: Yeah we've never taken a year off. That's for sure and then we’re forced too Mike: Forced too was the hardest part for me [21:19] like to be able to shift gears and i didn't enjoy it as much as I should have ya know I figure it was a lot of internal panic and like ah this is not what I planned and I became a little self centered jerk there for a minute which my wife pointed out and helped me get through. Jerrad: Yeah Mike: Yeah it was definitely there were a lot of silver linings in it and it was that it was man I got time to sit here an play 18 games of memory in a row with my 8 year old and he's gonna crush me because he's really smart. Yeah it was a hard season for sure but there were definitely some silver linings. Jerrad: Did you find more of those like discipleship moments because you're just like stuck to your, like Bart your were saying your son really wanted to get signed and you're like hey man and you're having a little like discipleship moment with him which I imagine you've had millions of these with him over [22:04] the years. But like, did you find more of those were they deeper were they a little bit more rich because it forced you to slow down? Bart: Yeah the whole thing like I enjoyed it almost too much like I had to keep telling myself man there's some tragic things going on in the world cause for me like once I got acclimated to I am gonna be home for a while and realize that the most important thing I am gonna do today is figure out what ice cream Im eating with my 10 year old and then I was like alright its never gonna happen again and every once in a while my wife is really good at about like literally sitting down and kinda doing a bible study Im not great at it but I really enjoy like if something comes up and there's a teachable moment or whatever one of the coolest ones during this time was we somehow got into a conversation about being spirit led and just like I think there was like a homeless guy on the corner at a stop light or something [22:57] and one day I think I gave him some money or something like that and then a few days later he's still there and I didnt the next day and my kids are like “wait he's there are you gonna do it” and I was like “man I didn't feel led to do that today” and they were like “what's that supposed to mean” and I was like “well…” and so I tried to explain it in like younger terms but I was like man I said “it's dangerous either way Hebrews talks about hardening your heart to the spirit (Hebrews 3:7-9?) and sometimes we may kinda feel that tug [23:21] to say, give the guy money, and we ignore it and I said I think we're missing out on this cool blessing and kinda moment in our life that it doesn't make us not saved or anything but its like i shouldn't and then I said and sometimes we get in a habit of like were supposed to do this over and over to where it's not that its spirit led its almost like it becomes a duty and it becomes superstitious like that's not a great place to be either and so its like some days you're going to feel led to do this and so in that I was telling them about my wife and I had this kinda like goofy thing that we do like if were listening like if we’re at a fundraiser or we here somebody's story that's trying to raise money 95% of the time i'll look at her it's like and we both know we gotta give and almost every time well have the same amount in mind and its kinda we laugh about it and yeah we're right and I was telling my kids this and they were like “really!?” and I was like yeah and my wife was like yeah its true its a little uncanny and so we were in a place where we really felt led [24:18] and we had like people that were like losing their jobs and we were being blessed to not have to struggle with that right now and so I was like man we should Im gonna bring you guys in on this like we need to help somebody and so they picked our Dave the barber the guy that cuts our boys hair who has six kids one kid with downs another one has a, just a lot on his plate and all he does is he has one barber chair and his wife stays at home and tries to make it and charges not enough and so I was like alright Dave it is! And I was like so he was taking appointments and well I couldn't find him at first and then months later when it kinda opened up [24:56] he was taking appointments I said guys lets try it and so I was like how much? And I'll never forget like I think it was my 11 year old Sofie or something she was like something like $1500 and I was like woah, and I was like and then Shanny was like I was kinda thinking the same thing and I was like alright man were for real and so… Jerrad: Did you guys really pray? Make sure you pray, make sure this is from God… [Laughter] Bart: Yeah no doubt! So I was like let's do it man and so I remember going and he's a very proud man and he wouldn't have taken it and so I went in and the way the restrictions were here if you get your haircut you go to him one at a time and the rule at the time was someone else had to exchange the money he couldn't do it so he had his daughter in the hallway doing the transactions it was a really weird deal and so I'm standing there with an envelope of cash and im getting my hair cut and the boys and I just walk up to her and I say [25:45] I would like to pay ya know whatever it is 50 haircuts in advance please and she was like “do what?” and I just gave her the money and left and she was like “what, what?” I just had to get outta there and he called me later and he was like “what are you doing?” and I was like I'm gonna need a lot of haircuts man these boys are growing like crazy and he started laughing and he was like “ok how do you wanna set it up? Gift cards?” and I was like Dave Im still paying for the stupid haircuts [laughter] and I was like I’m not buying them in advance a youre just not giving the money back and just tears in his eyes he was like “man you dont understand” and I kinda like I couldnt even imagine what he was going through and we had other opportunities to where I was like alright you know and where my kids are like “can we do it again? Can I play fortnight? Can we do this again? Can we find somebody else?” I'm like of course we can yeah and so it was really cool to see them kinda catch on to that lesson and get like really excited going to bed and going “who can we call tomorrow?” [26:34] kinda stuff and Jerrad: Thats so cool man thats the kinda stuff I was talking about with you about Mike about the adoption thing is like how do we invite our families into that adventure and give them like a taste of like man dude isnt that so much more fun than that dumb video game that you just like conquered right like theres so much… Mike: And the joy of giving is addictive… Jerrad: Yeah totally… Mike: I mean, you teach that kids that young and you teach them to be just benevolent and kind and generous and it changes their lives for sure. Jerrad: Did you guys [27:00] were your dads around when you were growing up? Bart: I had an abusive relationship and uh and I lived with my dad from about 7th grade on my parents divorced when I was 3 and she remarried and lived in another town and so I was in a bad situation until my freshman year in high school when he got cancer and was sick for about 5 years and his life completely transformed to where he passed away my freshman year in college and during that kinda season I kinda witnessed the dad I always wanted and so went from this like monster to literally my best friend when he passed away so yeah I kinda got a little bit of both I guess. Mike: For me my my mom and dad are still married [27:40] my dad was I never felt unloved I think that he worked constantly and never was like the dad to throw the baseball in the backyard but like his way of showing me that he loved me was like I'm gonna provide for you were gonna have food on the table and we've kinda worked through some of that as I got older and left the house I could really see him all of a sudden have the regrets that I have today with my kids of like ah man I really should have spent more time with you today or whatever or this week or whatever and I saw that in him that he really had regrets and we talked about it it's been awesome like my dad hes awesome he's just solid [28:16] hes unchanging in all in good ways and bad ways but like… Jerrad: Just steady… Mike: Yeah he's steady. And he taught me a lot you know just about integrity be a man of your word ya know all those things so yeah. Bart: Man a few years ago I was at I started to go to this kinda men's group that was at through my church and it was right when I moved from Nashville to Dallas [28:37] and I remember they were making this move the I Can Only Imagine movie and I was I went to this thing and they were talking about dads their relationship with their dads and I don't know if it was arrogance and I thought they were bringing it up because of this movie that was being made and I was like oh really and so they were asking like man what is your relationship with your dad like and I thought like oh Im gonna nail I'm gonna win this one cause I just had a horrible childhood and it was like I remember Barry Zito the pitcher there was these guys there that were talking and so I went through and I told my story and like Barry Zito was talking about his dad is still to this day his best friend the greatest man on the planet and it was like the most perfect childhood you could [29:16] imagine you know went to every game where he's MVP ya know major ya know all that stuff but then at the end of it he was like yeah cause I was talking about how I had to go through therapy and process unpack the stuff and learn to forgive a lot of things and then Barry is over here and I'm going you know perfect one ya know and he was like “yeah I had to go to therapy to get out of the shadow of my dad and figure out who I am and not struggle with just is he proud?” and I was like hold up I was like either way if we don't figure out who we are aside from that and as a man and as a father different routes same therapy [Laughter] is what it feels like and it's funny cause I never realized I was so self centered on my thing that I never realized that it doesn't matter where you come from [30:01] I mean ultimately what we want is for our dad to see us to make him proud but also to somehow figure out to be our own man our own father to our kids and to I mean literally one day stand eye to eye with your father where he can say I'm proud of you like man to man and I was like man I thought I was the only one apparently all of us have that in us. Jerrad: Yeah I was thinking about that as you were talking about your son wanting the record label and like but he's doing Mike, you were saying he's like finding his own sound he's doing his own thing he's taking the foundation of what you've built and branching off from it and the picture I had was like were building that foundation as dads but we want you to build a new house on it this isn't our house you're not moving into our house you're not taking over house you're building a new house on the foundation we laid. I think that's what you just described there and dude your I always tell guys like regardless of what you're doing your kids all our kids are still ending up in a counselor's office right. [30:55] [Laughter] Mike: He told that story when it happened and I remember thinking like it was actually kinda freeing for me to recognize like yeah I'm gonna screw my kids up like theres no question I am going to cause them issues in life and like the thing that fixed both of those things was even like as broken as the relationship with Bart and his dad was early on like those last five years like Bart knew his dad loved him he's knows his dad loves him and I think like that we're gonna mess up as dads but like just letting your kid know I love you buddy like I'm ticked that you can't get the wet towels off the floor but like I still love you and I'm gonna pick them up with you and talk about it everyday until you get it right and just to know you're there it's a game changer. Jerrad: It's huge. We need more guys just to be there I mean if more guys were just there that would things would change right thats a huge deal so but I mean pointing them back to the better father that's what I try to like daddys not God daddy sucks at being God I can't meet all your needs I cant like but there's a better father than daddy and just trying to point them back to Christ which is ya know way better than daddy could ever do. I wish I could talk to you guys all day I feel like I'm in your guys cabin wherever you are i'm looking around your room I feel like sitting there in that little couch hanging out but you guys are about to get on the road again as we wrap up here tell people where they can come see you and what you guys are up to over the next few months. [32:13] Bart: Yeah man it's been about a year since we've done these shows were kinda easing out there were playing a bunch of minor league baseball stadiums when I say a bunch that's the process I think there's four or six that have been announced and then daily we keep adding them as the stadiums who are understaffed are getting to where they can do shows stuff like that so the best thing is go to https://mercyme.org/ and just scroll to the bottom and dates keep getting added [32:41] and hopefully we'll be somewhere every state is different all the rules are different so it's been a process and so its once we get it figured out then we'll list the city and were hoping to keep adding them all through the summer so well see fingers crossed! Jerrad: Yeah well you guys I mean you guys have always put on a great show Im sure thats gonna be a great show I was we were talking earlier you got my friend Micah Tyler is part of that those shows he's been on our show before too so our listeners can take the family out enjoy some good shows and some baseball and hopefully a little bit sense of normalcy, thats a hard word to say! [Laughter] Bart: Part of feeling normal! Jerrad: Post COVID normal life Mike: Yeah we'd like to get back to pre-COVID Jerrad: Yeah there it is. Thank you guys for hanging out its been super fun I appreciate your guys giving us a little bit of your time Bart & Mike: Yeah, thanks a lot we appreciate it! [33:32] |
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